Do you struggle to find clarity in your life? Take back control and be the author of your own story. Join this conversation with Penny Zenker and Michelle Prince as they discuss how you could do that and make a difference in the world. Michelle is a bestselling author, motivational speaker, publishing expert, leadership coach and CEO of Performance Publishing Group, a publishing company dedicated to making a difference, one story at a time. She has worked with Zig Ziglar before, and she has gained a lot of learnings since then. She emphasizes the importance of time management practices, discovering your authentic self and passion for personal growth. If you are thinking of writing your first book, or you want to find your way back to an extraordinary life, then this episode is for you.
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Be The Author Of Your Story: How To Get The Revenue, Respect & Results You Deserve With Michelle Prince
I am excited to have a great guest that’s going to help you to work smarter in multiple ways. I always love that because strategies are cross contextual and we can always learn how to leverage multiple areas of our productivity. Michelle Prince is here and she’s a best-selling author and a sought-after motivational speaker like myself. We are enjoying each other’s company already. She’s a self-publishing expert and also a life coach and the CEO and Founder of Performance Publishing Group, a partner publishing company dedicated to making a difference. There’s a lot more here. She’s also worked with Zig Ziglar and she’s got a lot of cool stuff in her bio but you can go read about that. Let’s hear from Michelle directly without further ado.
Thanks so much for having me.
It’s great to great to have you here. I know we said we’re going to cover multiple things, that’s exciting. Before we do that, I would like to know, what’s your story? Since we’re going to be talking about story, too. Tell me about your story.
That’s what I love asking people about. I started my career working for Zig Ziglar, which was an amazing experience and that’s a long crazy story of how that happened but it laid the foundation for my love for personal development and everything I do now. I ended up leaving there to go work in Corporate America, spent thirteen years in software sales, realized quickly or maybe didn’t wasn’t so quick since it was thirteen years, it wasn’t what I was designed to do. In 2008 and 2009, I wrote a book and the intention was to share my story, have it documented for my kids but that one step opened up a full-time business of speaking, coaching, doing seminars and obviously many steps in between. My story is getting sick and tired and putting my foot down and saying, “I need to do something that is right for me. It’s my time. What does it look like if I start my own business?”
We have more in common because I used to be in technology as well. Here’s my theory about this. Technology is a productivity enabler because somebody asked me, “How does all this fit together? What you have been doing in your career and then you come to this?” That could be is that you’re productivity-minded in that sense of looking to get to what makes the most sense, spend your time where it is going to be of most value. We take steppingstones to get there. Does that resonate with you at all?
Yes. I never put it together like that but you’re so right because in software, there’s a process and a means to an end. You move fast. I love technology. I wasn’t loving being in sales for it and all of this but I still love it and leverage it. Maybe you do, you figure out how to juggle and manage more.
If you want to get something done, give it to a busy person.
I used to always say, “I’m better.” I’m at my best when I’m busy but then I realize how wrong that is. I was just multitasking. I wasn’t being as productive as I could have been. The theory behind that is not that we’re busy but that we have to think about it differently. We have to be smarter about the way that we do things because otherwise, we won’t be able to get the things done that we need to get done. It does make sense. You’ve written something about procrastinators. Is that because you have a tendency to procrastinate?
Not at all. It’s been said that you teach, you train and you write about things that you most need to hear. For me, that was the case. I wrote my first book, which was a personal development book but my second book was written with a purpose. I was in the process of starting a business. I was still working my software job when I started. I was juggling two kids in elementary school and I was so busy. It was a life or death, I had to figure out how to manage my time better or I was going to lose it. I started studying time management and productivity and learning all these tips and tricks. Tricks like time-blocking and all of these other things. I started writing it down and sharing it with people here and there. Before I knew it, I ended up writing a book on it but not because I had this all figured out. I wrote the book on it because I had to go through the process of focusing and managing my time in order to do all the things that I wanted to.Everybody has different practices, so what works for someone might not work for everyone. Click To Tweet
I tell people all the time that I’m not perfect. I’m doing this and teaching this but I have the same challenges. It might be quicker to come to a way to verbalize how to work on it than someone else. We got that bug of self-development that we can’t help but teach others what we’re learning.
You just pass it on. If it’s good information, you don’t want to keep it to yourself.
In that context, I do ask each guest and it’d be interesting to hear yours. I like to ask people, what’s your definition of productivity and why?
For me, it is being very intentional with what I do and blocking my time for priorities. There’s freedom and I’m not allowing too much freedom. I know that doesn’t make sense but for me, I am a huge time blocker, meaning I put things in my calendar and I know exactly what I need to be working on but I also set a lot of boundaries of when I’m available when I’m not available. I’m a big believer in scheduling my more big blocks or important things first. My kids are now older. My youngest just left for college but when they were young, I scheduled every football game, basketball game, soccer game, tennis match, you name it and nothing got in the way of that. I’m a big believer in nobody is forcing us to put things in our calendar and do things and we do have a lot more control than we think. With that comes a lot of freedom.
It creates freedom but at the same time, it seems like it doesn’t. That’s the productivity paradox. It’s like that less is more type of thing, by blocking, being specific and filling up your calendar but it’s creating more freedom and more space for those boundaries. That’s why we have the emotional challenge to accept it. When you talk about control. We know that to be true and that multitasking doesn’t work. There are tons of different articles and everything about it but we resist it.
I’ll be the first to say, “We’re not perfect.” There’s plenty of times that I find myself with twenty screens open and I’m thinking, “Why am I overwhelmed?” It’s because I am trying to multitask and it comes back to the basics, time block, one activity, stay focused and then you get more done even though it feels like you’re getting less.
I was at a workshop and we were talking about different a-has and whatnot. One of the gentlemen was like, “No wonder I start my day with so much stress.” He said he comes to his desk first thing in the morning and from yesterday, he has 25 windows open. Immediately he’s overwhelmed. We do have to look at little things to step back and start with a clean slate and only especially like you were saying, “Those big things first.” You’re not going to get to those big things if you have 25 windows open that are reminding you that you’ve got all these other little things to do.
They’re not the important things. They’re not the things that someday you’ll be like, “I wish I would’ve done that.” Checking Facebook is not on that list or even emails sometimes but taking that route.
Since we’re talking a little bit in this segment about time management and some of the tips and tricks that you like to share, when you’re time-blocking, do you have a different twist to it? Some people who are reading, they’re probably familiar with time-blocking as scheduling the activities or the categories of work that they’re going to do. The way I look at it is more categories of work. Do you have a special way that you do that works for you?
I don’t know if it’s that different or special for me, how I do it. A couple of ways. One is I’m big on whatever I have to get done on that day, I block it. This is going to sound silly but even a small little phone call, I have a sick dog and putting it on my calendar for ten minutes to call the vet. This is honest to God true story but if I didn’t have it in my calendar, I would start to get busy. I use mine as a little bit of a to-do but also don’t do anything else in this time. Another example, I’m leaving town in two days to go back-to-back training events that I’m doing and I have a lot of preparation, slides and things like that. I literally have pretty much every hour of the day slated out to do one particular thing. When I do that, I literally put my phone away. I do shut off everything so I can get that done.
It’s basic time-blocking. I do like to color-code it as well especially when my kids were younger. I had a color for my kids’ stuff. I have a color for if I was out speaking and if I was doing office work and also a color for date nights with my husband. I call them the big rocks is what people know but Zig Ziglar had this great thing called the Wheel of Life and there are seven categories. I like to map mine around my categories in the Wheel of Life. My career, my personal life, my spiritual life, physical health and those things. The reason that’s cool is if you look at your calendar at a glance at a high view of the week and let’s say your career is red, your kids and your husband are purple. If you look at your week and all you see is red and there’s no purple, you know you’re out of balance. The opposite is true if you’re out playing and you’re doing everything but doing work then that’s out of balance too.
I like to work with colors as well. If I were to wipe off your phone and you just got a new phone, what are the first things other than email and your calendar because those are obvious based on what you said with time blocking. What are some helpful apps that help people to be a little bit more productive or manage their time better?
There are so many. I always tell people, “You have to find the one that you feel most comfortable with.” There’s to-do, which is connected to your Office 365 account and if you have Microsoft Office, that works great and you can download the app to your phone. I personally like something called Alarmed. It’s the same concept but for me, I like it better. It tells me anytime I have anything to do. I do this for all my follow-up calls. If I have a conversation with someone and they say, “Give me a call in three months,” I put it in Alarmed and then it’ll pop up and alert me when it’s come time to do that. It’ll alert me what’s not been done. I can also go back and track and see what I got done all week if I wanted to. I personally liked that one but it’s similar to To Do. I liked the simplicity of it a little bit better.
Believe it or not, I use the Notes app a lot. It’s a sticky notes app. Instead of having sticky notes everywhere all over your desk, which I’m not going to say I don’t still have sticky notes. I do but I can take it with me everywhere I go. Anytime I think of anything, in fact, I’ll pull it up and see if I have anything. We were moving my son into college so I have a note of all my tasks that I need to get done, getting him set up, packed up and all of that stuff. What I do is I come in here and look at my running list of tasks and then from there, I take what I need to do for that day and I schedule it into either Alarmed if it’s a couple of days out or I literally put it straight away into my calendar as a block. Depending on if it takes me 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, 1 hour, I’ll do that.
Here’s one thing and this is a time management thing but it works well for me. I try hard not to do more than one-hour blocks because the reality of somebody is going to text me, somebody is going to call or an email, I have to do something. Instead of filling that guilt of like, “I didn’t do this, this and this.” I just block and then I have open block time. That’s my time to respond to emails, texts and all that stuff.
I call it planning your flexibility so that you have time to be reactive. The other time is time to be proactive whatever needs to get done. That’s important. We have this tendency to overdo one way or the other. It’s like overschedule the calendar, overbook, overschedule, back-to-back everything, no transition time or leave too much open and think that that’s going to create flexibility. It’s somewhere that happy medium in the middle. It’s giving yourself some space.
It’s a work in progress. There are many things. I used to use Evernote forever and a couple of others but it’s finding something that works for you.Set boundaries in your life. You have to discover what is right for you. Click To Tweet
I like to ask because there are a couple of things that I use religiously and they would be the first ones that I put on like TextExpander. It’s a little thing but I do a lot of the same blurbs that I have to quickly find like my bio so I can write hashtag bio and then it’ll show up in my email, in a Zoom link or wherever I want it to be. I love that. That’s the first thing that I put on because it just cuts out some of the wasted time of repeating, typing the same stuff. I like sharing with people because I know we can geek out about different things. Platstack is one of my favorites on Chrome. It’s a windows tab tool. You can save different URLs in categories. If you’re working on a project, for instance, you can save all the URLs in one stack and then you can open them all at the same time but then you can close them at the end of the night and know that they’re all there for you to open when you’re ready to work on the project, instead of leaving them all open.
I have not heard of that one and I wrote those two things down. I will be over this stuff but I love it.
Like you, there are a couple of things that I use because people are over-apped and always trying something new. They never implement something and stick with it. Our problem is that we’re squirrels all over the place. Squirrel, squirrel, app, app, shiny penny syndrome. Pick something and then use it and make it a consistent practice.
This is so basic and I’m sure most if not all of your readers have heard or know this but in case, I did it for a while. We’re all remote mobile people these days. You have things that are on your laptop that may or may not be on your phone. For me, what has saved my life probably implemented this. I don’t know. Two things, ten plus years ago, one is Roboform, which there are a million different versions of that as well, which is just your password manager and having it on your computer, your phone, your iPad and your everything. You can get in and you’re not wasting time trying to get into an application.
The other thing and this is what’s simple. I have a Mac but I don’t save my files onto my Mac because I have crashed many Mac through many years. It’s the best because literally, even as I’m waiting for something to boot up on my computer, I’m on my phone on Dropbox and I can work my documents just the same. I can update my slides from my phone if I need to. That auto-synchronization has helped so much because that’s one thing I’ve heard from people who have had issues with time management, is like, “I’m not always at my desk.” You don’t have to be at your desk to get your work done anymore.
Those are totally key. I don’t even think about those anymore because they’re just like standards but it’s good that you mentioned them because a lot of people don’t write. Everybody has different practices and sometimes we don’t think about it. I’ll share my latest cool thing that I use and then I want to switch topics a little bit. I started to get this remarkable tablet because I like to take notes on everything. I like to write it down. It’s like a way for me to remember things like a great podcast I’m listening to or a book that I’m reading. You talk about sticky notes, sticky notes everywhere and then it becomes a distraction. 1 or 2 sticky notes, reminder, that’s good, 100 sticky notes, now it’s a distraction.
I’ve been loving this to reduce the paper because I can then send it to, I use Evernote, you mentioned that, and then I can send it to Evernote and tag it. I have it there for searchability and it’ll convert my handwriting to texts and stuff and I can have diagrams. I’m loving this tablet. It’s super thin. It’s like a piece of paper but I don’t have to have paper all over my desk.
I know there was one a couple of years ago. I don’t know if it’s that same one but the technology is good as far as converting it over.
It’s gotten a lot better and it could be better in integrating. I would love to see that the checklist there goes into a To Do app or something. It’s not quite there yet and using tools like Zapier or something like that where you could get certain elements and put them somewhere but it does allow you to save it as a PDF and then you can put it somewhere and you can put it into the text if it’s just handwriting.
If you’re on an airplane or something and you don’t have your notebook with you, you can still be reviewing your notes on your phone through the app. I love that. I’ll have to check the remarkable ones.
There we are, geeking out over time management stuff. Time management, for me, is just how do we think, act and be more strategic. That should tie nicely into the second part of the discussion. I asked you what your story was. I know you integrate and talk to people about bringing out their story and helping them to create their business from their story. Why does that make sense? Why is that productive in that sense and working smarter?
I tell people all the time, I never intended to write a book or set out to do what I’m doing nowadays. Certainly not helping people write books, never in a million years. What happened to me was after I wrote my first book, that’s what opened up everything else. I look at a book for two reasons. One, you don’t know how your story is going to impact someone and the things that we take for granted or assume everybody knows how to do, they don’t. You’re helping someone when you share your story. I like to think of our story is a gift and gifts are meant to be shared. The good and the bad of our story, too. It inspires and gives hope. The other thing is leverage. Going back to time management. By writing a book, that exponentially built my business faster than I could have ever done it without it.
I always call my book my glorified business card but it gets attention because of the book, I get a lot more speaking engagements. You’re seen as the authority in your space. It does help you to set apart. I see that.
I’m laughing because one of the books that I wrote is called that, Your Book Is Your Business Card. This little book is my business card. When I speak, this is what I give out for free in exchange for their business card. If you look at it that way, we all are the authority of our story and for you, it’s all of helping people to focus and get more done. Every single person reading has something personally or professionally that they could share with someone else. When you put it in a book, it literally amplifies everything that you want to do and it can happen a lot quicker.
Doesn’t it help you get greater clarity on your story as well? It’s easier to communicate your story because you’ve worked on it and it helps you to create that impact that you’re looking to create. There are many different reasons why writing a book is valuable for somebody as part of their business process.
It’s not about a book. It’s nice but it’s more your story. It’s also who you become in the process of writing a book and you get that clarity on how you serve people and what you can help them with. It’s a cool experience if you haven’t been through it but to see other people too and how it’s very consistent and it did it for you as well.
What would you say to people? I’m sure there are a lot of people out there and I felt this way. I’m like, “I don’t have any incredibly moving. I didn’t think like my experiences might be everyday common.” I know that they’re not exactly. I have some different things. I worked in Zürich, Switzerland for sixteen years. I’ve got some very special different things that people here don’t have but I get that feeling. I had the feeling who’s going to want to listen to my story. Why do they want to hear from me? There are a lot of people who feel that way. Maybe it’s imposter syndrome that’s bugging our ear that says, “You’re not important. You’re not worthy.” How do you help people overcome that in telling their stories?
Everybody goes through it. I went through it for a long time. In fact, years before I made the decision and wrote my book, I secretly didn’t dare tell anyone I wanted to write a book. I would say things to myself like, “Who do you think you are?” I worked for Zig Ziglar for a while there and so I would say, “You’re no Zig Ziglar, who would care to read your story?” It held me back for a long time and then one day I just had this epiphany. I’m like, “Why not me?” Somebody may pick up my story or resonate with my story more than they would ever listen to Zig Ziglar or something like that. What I usually do is there’s an exercise that we have all of our authors go through or people that have come through our events and helping them to get that clarity because when you see that you do have, your story is a combination of your passions and your experiences.
When you put it out on paper, see them firsthand and see all that you are that you are, you said you are your story then you start making intersections and you start to be like, “Maybe that is unique. Maybe I did overcome poverty or abuse. Maybe I built a business and it wasn’t so difficult.” Somebody could benefit from that. All that to say, getting the clarity on your story, there is still that chatter. That’s why I love surrounding myself with other people that get this. You have to be around other people that like you and who are in the same lane of trying to make things happen because not everybody will understand but find a community to support you. Read a blog like this. Now I’m in this world and I have been for a while and writing a book, podcasts and all that stuff is what everybody does but I wasn’t in that world several years ago. I remember the thought of like, “Writing a book who? Me?” Once you do it, you’re like, “It wasn’t so bad.”
We build this up to be much more difficult and put these roadblocks in front of us that don’t belong there and aren’t there.
The analogy I always think of is that like a sliding glass door in somebody’s house and you can’t see necessarily that there’s glass right there. How many times have you walked into a sliding glass door and you bump into it? It’s those imaginary doors or windows right in front of you. You got to recognize them, open them and then walkthrough.
It’s that simple, slide it on over. I worked with Tony Robbins, we have a similar type of experience. I don’t need to be Tony Robbins. You don’t need to be Zig Ziglar. What are we comparing ourselves to? They’ve been building up their authority and their brand for several years their whole career. If you’re just getting into it and you’re writing your first book like, are you comparing yourself to the person who’s top in the industry? That’s crazy.We do have a lot more control than we think. And that with that comes to a lot of freedom. Click To Tweet
Yet we think these things or see other people on Facebook or Instagram who seemed to have it all together.
That’s why I like the question also, compared to what? I don’t have a good story, compared to who? Compared to what? You always make questions, “Why not me?” Once we ask ourselves those questions that we start putting positive questions in our mind to challenge it and be like, “I’m going to do this. Who cares?” You said you have an exercise. Is there something that you could share with people that are reading that they could get a feel for what it’s like to think about their story and how to start thinking about it?
What I usually say is grab a sheet of paper and make a T-chart. On the left-hand side of the T, write the word passions at the top. I want you to list as many things as you can possibly think of that you’ve love, that you’re passionate about, that you enjoy doing and that light you up. It could be cooking, traveling or working with kids. For me, I’m passionate about personal development. I have been since I was eighteen. That’s part of who I am. That’s when I met Zig. That’s one of my passions. I’m passionate about the beach, kids, my faith, all other things. As many things you can put on that list as possible is the key.
On the right-hand side of the T, you write the word experience and this is where you’re listing everything that you’ve experienced in your life. For example, you’re a podcast host, you’re an author, if you’re a parent, maybe you’ve traveled the world, any experiences in sales or whatever, write it on that list. The tricky thing with experience is we don’t have to be passionate about it in order to experience something, meaning we experienced things all the time that we did not want to experience but yet it’s part of your story. You have to put it on the list. It doesn’t mean that’s what your book’s about, it could be bankruptcy, abuse, divorce or something but put it on your list is key.
Once you have both sides of those columns of the T-chart filled in, the more on the list, the better, now where the magic is trying to find that intersection. What do you have that’s on the passion side that is also on the experience side? For example, I’m passionate about personal development. On my experience side, I worked for Zig Ziglar, which was a cool experience but it ties together because I learned a lot of the things I am passionate about in personal development, I learned from him. I share this with everybody but I had on my experiences when I was young, I had low self-esteem. Middle school, early high school years. It’s not like it was that big of a deal but it did shape who I am, it shaped decisions I made, relationships I had and all of those things. I put it on my list not because I’m proud of it but because it’s part of my story but there’s a connection.
I’m passionate about personal development. I had to use personal development and things I learned from Zig in order to get me out of that mindset, that negative chatter so there’s a connection there. That happened to be my first book, Winning In Life Now: How To Breakthrough To A Happier You!. That’s where the key is. If you do this right, you’ll likely have multiple connections and then it’s a matter of, “Which one speaks to me the most and which would be the easiest for me to get out the quickest?” You can leverage publish author status regardless of the topic. It’s which one you can get out the quickest but the key is having both the passion and the experience because if you only write about something where you have experience and no passion, those are the books that people start and never finish.
The flip of it, if you only write about something that you’re passionate about but you have no experience, there’s no depth there. You can be passionate about kids but if you’ve never had kids, don’t read a parenting book. My example on the other side of that is I was in sales my whole career, software sales and all that so I have the experience. Every time I thought about it early on before I knew what I was going to write my book about, I thought, “Maybe I’ll write a sales book, something about cold calling or something.” Every time I thought about doing it, I had no passion for it. I could do it. I could write a great book about it. I tell people, “Be careful what you write about because you will be speaking about it for a long time.” Make sure your passion is involved too.
What I’d like to do is also for those that are reading, maybe they don’t want to write a book and that’s not in their wheelhouse, I want to point out how valuable it is to do this exercise nonetheless. Let’s say you are in sales and you don’t love it. Could it be more interesting? Could it be better if you knew your story and you could bring your story in those conversations to create a greater connection with people? People love to hear other people’s stories. If I were to do this list, I don’t know that I’m passionate about time management. I’m passionate about helping people to think more strategically, to be smarter. If I put that on my passion side and then I put on my experience side that I started an IT company, I built it up and I used to work on as a consultant, as part of my story. I use this in my speaking and in my talking is that I learned my initial relationship with time was through consulting. Charging per hour.
I can work an hour and I will get paid that amount per hour. In my technology business, you hit a ceiling. There are only so many hours you can work and only so many hours that you people can work. I thought, “I need to get in a different business model that’s going to help me work smarter.” I went into fixed-price contracts. As long as you know the nuances and how to do that, that could be more profitable and could maximize your time. There’s a lot of business models out there that don’t work. That people are burning themselves out in those industries. Example of how those two come together and how someone can use their story in different contexts. That’s how I might use it for instance and I hear it all the time. Do you also teach people how to use their story in their sales process and in other aspects of their leadership?
It’s funny because I never set out to help people with books. It’s not about a book. It’s more about your story and we do this a lot for people incorporate. We do it for business owners who may or may not ever want to write a book but they do want to build a platform. What it wills down to is the power of leveraging your authority and what you can do with that. In fact, that’s the title of my last book, The Power Of Authority. It is a little bit of a play on words where you can’t spell authority without an author but it’s not a book about help telling you should write a book. It’s like, what is your core message? What is it that you just love helping people with personally or professionally and then how can you get that out there?
A book is just one way. To build a platform, you have to do all of the different ways, podcasting, speaking, blogging, writing, even if it’s just sharing your story over a cup of coffee or when you’re doing a presentation. We connect more when we know the backstory. This is my opinion, nobody cares how successful you are and being fascinated by it but they don’t care until they know your why. Like, “You’ve done this, you’ve written books. You’ve done it at that.” What led you to that? What’s your story? You asked me that right when we started. Everybody is asking that subconsciously or outwardly. What’s your story? Why should I care?
What do I like about this person? What’s relatable? What’s connectable? What’s likable? Those are things that we don’t think that we’re asking but ourselves but we are as we’re listening to someone. I would agree with that.
Book makes it easier for somebody to figure that story out about you but truly we do it all the time.
Thank you so much for covering these two different topics and they do interrelate because when you can be your authentic self and bring your story, there’s nothing more productive than that. Tell people where they can get more information about you and anything else that you wanted to share before we closeout.
MichellePrince.com or PerformancePublishingGroup.com are probably the two best. We do free strategy sessions if you want to reach out. I’m mostly on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn probably but anywhere you can find me there. I’ll leave it as I do believe they’re all interconnected, even though they seem different. Once you get clarity on your story and your story is part of your purpose. That purpose is what’s going to give you the clarity to your priorities. Priorities are what we’re talking about with time management. That’s what it boils down to. Getting the things done that need to get done that are important to you and to other people but in doing so, when you have that time to focus on helping more people, that’s when you’re making a difference and making a bigger impact. They all combine together but the first step is figuring out what do you want and what are you going to do about it. There’s no easy way. You got to take action.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for being here reading and taking away some tips. We talked about a lot. We’ve got some apps for you. We got some discussion around some other tips and understanding how you can better think things through, how you can relate and find your story. That was one of the big things. If you didn’t do that exercise, go ahead and do that. Take a look at what you’re passionate about and what experiences you have and where the overlap is and how can you can use those stories whether it’s to build a platform or whether it’s just to increase your influence with others as a leader by integrating that into how you present yourself, that in itself is going to make you way more productive in all of your relationships. Relationships is the key to the house and the castle. Thank you all for being here. We’ll see you in the next episode.
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About Michelle Prince
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