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Efficient Time Management And Productivity with Kevin Kruse

Great Leaders Have No Rules

15 Secrets Successful People Know About Time Management: The Productivity Habits of 7 Billionaires, 13 Olympic Athletes, 29 Straight-A Students, and 239 Entrepreneurs

I am excited to have fellow Philadelphian on the line, Kevin Kruse. He is the Founder and CEO of LEADx. They are offering the world’s first leadership training and coach powered by IBM Watson, which I’m sure he’s going to tell us more about. Kevin is also a New York Times bestselling author of nine books. That’s how I found Kevin was from reading and really enjoying his stuff. I said, “Kevin, you got to come and be on the show.” One of his books that just came out is Great Leaders Have No Rules: Contrarian Leadership Principles to Transform your Team and Your Business and among the many others like the 15 Secrets Successful People Know About Time Management. We’re going to talk about some of those books and principals. Kevin, welcome to the show.
Penny, thanks a lot. It’s great to be representing Philadelphia here.
Kevin, you’ve written nine books around leadership and productivity. I think somewhere I read that you were an extreme productivity person. Where did you get the interest and the passion around productivity?
I wish it was different, but it’s because I used to be so horrible at it. Years ago, I started a company as an entrepreneur with the best of intentions and it was all about hustle and I was working around the clock and I failed miserably. My second business went out of business and it took me three times to get it right and thankfully I’ve had some success since then, but when I look back, I was really bad at productivity. Working hard is not necessarily the same as being productive or certainly not the same as being effective. I also didn’t know how to lead. If you think about leaders or managers or even entrepreneurs, are you getting the right stuff done? Are you engaging your people? Are you attracting talented people and holding on to them? I was pretty bad at both of those things.
Over the years, I just tried to become a student of it and I got a lot of great mentors. When I sold a previous company years ago, I was a single dad with three kids and said, “Let me take some time off and raise my kids, do some nonprofit stuff.” That was the time I said, “Let me go track down highly successful people around the world, self-made billionaires, self-made millionaires and just get their opinion.” What’s the number one secret? That started the 15 Secrets book. I flipped it back over to start looking at all the stupid things that people think they know about management leadership that that just doesn’t work anymore. It’s really been that dual focus.
I want to talk about some of those things. First, let’s go back. You’ve interviewed many really cool people who are highly successful, high performers and trying to find out the secrets. Unfortunately, we have to learn the hard way sometimes. What was the shocking thing that you learned?
It’s easy because this is what I get more hate mail about than anything else. As you mentioned, I interviewed almost 300 of the self-made billionaires and millionaires, but also Olympians and straight-A athletes. When I was about halfway through the interviews, I was only asking one open-ended question. Give me your number one secret to time management and productivity? About halfway through I realized nobody had mentioned a to-do list. A lot of people would be like, “You prioritize it. I got the system ABC.” That’s the way we were all taught. In fact, when I was doing the interviews, my to-do list was on a yellow legal pad; extra-long, two columns. That’s how I tried to do it. When I realized they weren’t talking about it, I then started asking the follow-up question. I would say, “You didn’t mention your to-do list. Do you have any tips on that?” Most of them would laugh. “To-do list? We don’t use a to-do list.”
Rules can bring productivity to a halt. Click To Tweet As I dug in, it turns out that the to-do list idea came from a guy named Ivy Lee over a hundred years ago. It was that time he said, “Executives should write down five things on a piece of paper, stick it in their pocket, work on thing number one and when they’re done, pull out the paper, look at thing number two and start working on that, then you go home at 5:00.” That might’ve been great advice for a quieter, slower, fewer items to-do time, but it doesn’t really work. I’m not anti-list. I have a grocery list. I have a project list and our brains are pretty good at remembering things that’s maybe just a handful. When we get to about ten things, the amount of stuff we need to do. A list might get us through more than that, we’re going to forget or choose the wrong thing. A study a couple of years ago shows that 40% of what we put on our to-do list never gets done at all.
The answer is that they’re not using a to-do list, they’re using their calendar. I hear this over and over again. If you really want to get something done, pick a day, pick a time, pick a duration and schedule it. Schedule, don’t list. That was the thing. It changed my life. I didn’t know that. I tell people, don’t shoot the messenger. This is what people told me. I had a chance to talk to John Maxwell, this great legendary leadership coach. We were talking about something else and he stumbled in, he said, “Kevin, anytime from the last twenty years, you pick the day, you pick the hour. Give me a minute and I’ll tell you exactly where I was and what I was doing.” He said, “I calendar everything and I review that calendar.” In fact, he takes the last week of the year to really go back, “How much time was I spending on health? How about family, how about business?” He reallocates the minutes for the upcoming year. Most of us just work off that to-do list, but it’s just not that effective.
I want to talk about that because you’re right. Our first inclination, going back to what you said earlier is we work harder because our brain makes us think that that short-term solution of working harder is going to be better, but it’s not. I think that to-do list is the same thing. It’s that default thing that our brain says is make this to-do list, but it actually ends up distracting us. You said, if 40% of it isn’t even getting done, then most of the stuff on there is just a distraction from the things that are really important and really need our focus.
You said it well there because it means that the to-do list is the graveyard of important but not urgent or important but not easy or just the graveyard. If we’ve got that, “I’ve got 30 minutes, what do I do?” We look at the list and we picked the easy thing, the fun thing and the thing that fits within 30 minutes. Our brains aren’t wired for success naturally.
We’re not telling you to ditch your list entirely. However, we are telling you that if your primary focus is on your to-do list, then you were not working as efficient and effective as these self-made millionaires, billionaires, Olympic athletes or people who are high performers. They are not focused on the list. They’re probably not focused on time. Time makes us stressed out if we’re focused on it. You said that the leadership principles don’t work anymore. I think that’s an interesting comment of what you made. We’re in different times. I’d love to have you make some about and maybe it’s something that’s in your new book that can give people some insight around great leaders have no rules. What are some things that used to work that don’t work now?
These things may be worked at one point, they came from a good place, but the times have changed. A classic one is, we’ve all heard to have that open door policy. Most of us don’t have offices indoors, but whether it’s being accessible in the cube environment or through Slack, at home, whatever it is, the classic wisdom is to have that open door policy to facilitate communication and speed and leap-frogging to solve problems. This day and age, especially with these interruption devices, also known as our smartphones, that policy is problematic in two ways. One, for the manager, the leader, we’re getting interrupted all the time and we can’t do our deep work. We can’t do strategic thinking and creative thinking. We’re never getting into the zone. It’s also bad for the team members who are coming through that open door.

Time Management And Productivity: For those of us who are newer to management leadership, we fall back on the wisdom of our older peers or even family members or parents.

The executive coach Marshall Goldsmith did some writing and research on this. He said, “If someone’s coming through your door with an unplanned item, either you hired the wrong person, you didn’t train them very well or you don’t have a culture of psychological safety. They’re too scared to make a decision to take action, to make a choice and be wrong.” It’s not a healthy relationship for your team either. This day and age, I’m not saying don’t communicate, just slam the door. Close the door and open your calendar. Maybe it’s office hours and you could say whatever works for you. Maybe it’s two hours a day of office hours where anybody could come in and bug you. Everybody’s going to be different with their situation. That open door policy is one that came from a good place and might’ve worked at one time. This day and age it’s just driving us all crazy and not a real healthy dynamic for most teens as well.
It’s interesting, open door policies and they say, “We don’t even have any doors anymore.” That supposedly was to create more interaction and engagement, but it really just creates more distraction. To set up those core times when people can reach you and having them have a plan when they come in makes 100% sense. What is it that we don’t know intuitively that some of these things that we know but we don’t do?
When I think back when I was in my twenties and young and dumb and it’s not that everybody who’s in their twenties is young and dumb, it was just me. For those of us who are newer to management leadership, we fall back on the wisdom of our older peers or even family members or parents. I think a lot of this old and no longer effective advice is still out there. I think that it’s more just understanding what the modern workplace is all about. Again, it is contrarian to work from your calendar, not really your to-do list, close that open door policy most of the time. I think the times have changed. In one of the chapters, I say reveal everything, even salaries. Back in the day, there were levels of secrecy. It was almost the employees can’t handle the truth. I was told once that we’re having a bad quarter, but don’t tell those the staff otherwise they’re all going to be updating their resumes and taking headhunter phone calls.
This day and age, I think that people have access to information easier than ever before, especially the younger generation is more willing to share. They don’t really care about privacy as much. Even when it comes to something salary, it was so taboo when I was young. You would probably be fired if you told people how much money you made. That was a state secret. This day and age, people could just go online to Salary.com or PayScale.com and quickly see like, “What is the going rate for my position in my city in Philadelphia?” If you’re young, half the time they’re all comparing notes. As we’ve learned that secrecy has also bred things like the gender gap when it comes to pay. It’s only when you shine a light on some of these things that things can change and improve. More people are becoming comfortable, whether it’s salary or something else. If you don’t talk about it, people aren’t stupid. Whatever they imagine is going to be worse than the reality anyway. If you aren’t willing to share something like salary, I think this is an opportunity to say, “Why not?” That means I don’t have a system in place or it is too arbitrary or I haven’t adjusted people in a while. Take those steps. I think this is where some of the Silicon Valley companies have done well.
They’ll say, “For our software engineers, we pay up to 70% of going rate using this service to indicate what that is and you’ll make $10,000 more if you’ve got a Master’s degree or you’ll make $10,000 more if you have three years or more experience.” It’s a formula. It doesn’t mean everybody’s going to be making exactly the same, but it’s going to be close and there’s at least logic. When I find out that Penny and I are both programmers and I found out she makes $125,000 a year and I make $120,000, there’s probably going to be a reason for that that I can understand. How do I get that extra $5,000? Just really change the dynamics when you create a culture that says, “We’re going to share everything with you, the good and the bad because we want your help fixing the bad and we want you to trust us.” When things get really bad, you don’t have to wonder, we would be telling you. If they’re not that bad, then rally up with us and keep moving forward.
It’s full transparency and it does foster trust. I’ve seen it in organizations where it’s been the opposite and there weren’t very many transparency and people had issues with knowing what was the truth. I’m not sure that I think that we should be sharing and discussing each person’s salary with one another because I think there are some other issues, but it doesn’t need to be taboo. If you’re not happy with your salary, it should be something that you can discuss. If you’re way under-paying your people, they’re going to find out and that’s not a good thing. I want to come back to the title of your book Have No Rules. That’s one of your chapters in there. What are some of the productivity results from having no rules?
Working hard is not necessarily the same as being productive or certainly not the same as being effective. Click To Tweet I think that it gets back to the highest level. Leadership, it starts with self-leadership. If leadership is an influence, there’s self-leadership, how do we lead ourselves? There’s leadership at home, in our marriages with our kids and at work. It’s not that I’m suggesting that everything runs amuck. You need rules if there are laws. I worked for a railroad and one of the rules was you can’t listen to music with earbuds when you’re working on the railroad track. That’s probably a pretty good rule to have. They’re there for a reason. However, every time I bumped into a rule, it takes away the opportunity for me to make a choice. It becomes your company, not my company. Rules get in the way of a relationship. Rules crowd out conversation. Rules impede this idea of engagement. I’ll tell you a quick story. I was 30 years old and had sold my company. They come in and acquired mine. I was a vice president. I was a partner. I report to the CEO. He gave me the big pep talk. “We’re all equal partners here. Everybody gets one vote. We’re all going to build this company to the next level together.” It sounded good to me.
30 days in, I get my first expense report check back and the check is short by about $4. I sent a note to our CFO and just said, “Don, it’s no big deal, but the check came back short. I assume I filled out the form wrong.” He emailed back right away and said, “No, we don’t reimburse for post-it notes.” I said, “Why?” He said, “It’s a wasteful expense.” How much did I feel like a partner in the firm, an owner in the company when I couldn’t even buy Post-it Notes? How much did I feel like a VP? How engaged did it feel like my company or their company and they were the people that weren’t letting me buy Post-it Notes? Another friend of mine who had joined the firm also at a partner level, the same exact day, his check showed up short and he found out that they don’t reimburse for beer. He had bought a beer with dinner while he was traveling on business. Now, he could have bought a $6 milkshake. They would’ve paid for it, but they didn’t want to pay for his $3 beer. Like all rules, they come from a good place. Organizations want to protect from losing money or risk. They’re protecting against the 1% of knuckleheads, but the 99% are bumped into these rules.
How interesting is that? How much it costs them for somebody to go through all of those expense reports in that detail? That’s way more than the $3 of the $4 on each of your paycheck. That’s just plain stupid.
Most rules backfire. It either costs more to enforce them than to not have them or people will do silly things. There was a company that the person told me that they had sent out a big proposal and it had a typo in the budget. It was embarrassing. There was a new rule put in place. No salesperson could send out a proposal unless the Chief Financial Officer approved the budget. They then missed $1 million opportunity because the CFO was sick that day that it was due. No one could sign it and the rep wouldn’t break the rule and send it in. They lost out on $1 million opportunity. Another one of my readers had sent in, I was asking for examples of silly rules and they said, “We’ve got a rule where we’re not allowed to spend more than $100 per night on a hotel for business travel.” They said, “We had a meeting in New York City.” You can’t get a hotel room for $100 in New York City. They got a $90 hotel room in New Jersey and then paid $100 for a rental car to drive from New Jersey into New York to do the meeting and back.
They spent $200 to not spend the extra $10 on the hotel room. With my Post-it Notes example, I went to war. It was called, “The Post-it Note battle” I talked to the CEO about it. He said, “Kevin, here’s the deal. I don’t care about Post-it Notes.” He said, “One of our values is growth and profit.” That was a written value. It’s not the mission. He said, “We need to survive. That’s the air we breathe.” This is a symbol. He said, “Most people, they buy Post-it Notes and they scribble little phone messages or other things.” He says, “I don’t use Post-it Notes.” He says, “I take my leftover printer paper and I tear it into little squares.” He had a stack of this torn paper on his desk. He said, “It’s a symbol of frugality.” Here’s what happened. He agreed. He didn’t want everybody to be upset so he changed the rule. We could now buy Post-it Notes. Because he had a conversation with me, we had a little bit of a relationship, sharing what was going on here. Because he linked it to a value, I never bought Post-it Notes again.
To this day, I rip up little pieces of paper, then put them on my desk to take little notes from phone calls and messages and things. Rules are arbitrary. They’re black and white, they don’t consider circumstance. Better than rules are used your values, whether it’s your family values, values in a marriage or values at work, as guard rails. These are your bumper cars, you’re bumping into these values, but there’s some wiggle in between. Instead of just having a rule, you have a conversation. If some knucklehead is spending money wastefully or dressing inappropriately at the office or taking too many days of vacation, that’s a coaching conversation. You let them know this is out of the norm and the average and here’s our concern about it and the downside. Hopefully, that corrects the behavior or you have a tougher conversation. To arbitrarily apply that dress code rule, everybody gets ten days off vacation, whatever that is, it does more harm than good.

Management And Productivity: Often we have these rules, conscious or unconscious, that guide us but put us in box arbitrarily. They make our life smaller, not larger.

It’s interesting that you say that. At first, I was going to say, “Don’t you think we really need more personal rules sometimes because we don’t have boundaries, then we’re violating our own values because we’re not putting boundaries in place?” When it comes to the business, I have seen the same thing that you’ve seen. I was actually coaching a large chiropractic group that has multiple locations. Because of something that one doctor did, they put a rule in place that limited everyone and it really impacted the whole trust of all the doctors together with the owners. I think it really does create some limitations and barrier in a way because it’s not taking into consideration context and it’s really taking one bad egg who you should have a conversation with versus making a rule across the board. I do agree with that. Many companies have way too many rules that they need to evaluate. That being said, I’d like your opinion on people that are setting fewer boundaries for themselves and rules for themselves so that they can be less distracted. Rules about don’t look at your phone every ten minutes. Let’s talk about that. What about personal rules?
This is where I think you bring up a good point. I think I myself would need to think more about rules versus holding myself to a higher standard. I’m glad you asked the question because the book is Great Leaders Have No Rules, but it’s not just about leadership at work. As I say, “It starts with self-leadership and then family leadership.” In general, I think where rules for our own lives go wrong is we don’t challenge them. Some people might have a rule, I will never date a person who smokes or isn’t my religion or isn’t an age range. Often, we have these rules, conscious or unconscious that guide us or I will never start a business until my kids are out of college or whatever that might be. I think a lot of these rules box us in arbitrarily. They make our life smaller, not larger.
They might be value-based. I want to interrupt though there.
Let’s give an example. What would be a rule that would be value-based?
You said for instance, that I’m not going to start my business until my kids are out of elementary school.
What is it that you value? Time with your kids?
Our brains are pretty good at remembering just a handful of things. Click To Tweet Whoever’s doing that, those are the impressionable years and therefore, they want to be home during those years.
Again, in terms of rules taking out conversation and rule replacement would start with values. It’s funny, I had a similar thing. The reason why I didn’t start the current business LEADx until two years ago was because I had three kids at home and I waited until the first two were off to college before starting up. In my case, it wasn’t that black and white rule where it was I was not going to start another business until all the kids are out. It became I’m not going to start a business because I’m valuing my time being a dad and raising good kids. It was an ongoing conversation with myself where all of a sudden I realized, “Two of my kids are out, I’ve now got one and he’s a boy that doesn’t seem to be around or need me as much as the girls and he’s getting ready to drive in self to school.” There’s not the early morning stuff that he’s sixteen. I thought about, “Can I start a business and still give him what he needs from a parent?” I think to me, a rule is that inflexible thing. You cannot stay at a hotel that cost over $100 and then nobody ever does it. I think the value is be frugal while you travel. It is frugal for New York City. I think it’s subtle, but I think as long as you’re willing to evaluate your rule on a continual basis, then I’d be okay with it.
I do talk about it. That’s why I like when you said it’s value-based. It’s important to challenge it. For instance, if it’s principle-based and you say, “I don’t eat meat,” that’s a rule. I find that when we have those rules and principles for ourselves, it makes our life easier in a way because it’s a decision already made. I like the idea that you challenge it and see what are the benefits, what are the costs and why is this important to me? You can decide, is this a guiding principle for my life or is this just for now? As you said, it’s a matter of challenging it because some of those rules can really serve us. For instance, if I brush my teeth, I don’t eat after I brush my teeth. It’s a rule or principle. Have I ever broken it? Yes, maybe, but it helps me from overeating because then I’ll just go brush my teeth and I have this rule and principle that supports me and then I can use it to my benefit. You know what I mean?
I love that example because I’m also all about habits. That brush the teeth thing is a really good one. Especially if I don’t want a snack.
Some rules can benefit us.

Great Leaders Have No Rules: Contrarian Leadership Principles to Transform Your Team and Business

I don’t call that a rule. I call it a principle. In my mind the rule becomes negative when crossed. This is where people really go crazy. I don’t think we should have rules with our kids. A common rule is curfew. Most people were raised with curfews, give curfews to their kids. Here’s the difference that I see. When I was a kid growing up, I had two older sisters. I watched this going on. My dad is an old school dad, he would have curfew was 10:00 PM or whatever it is. I would see him get up, start pacing and huffing at 9:55 PM. At 10:00 PM, he’d be telling my mom that the girls are going to be in trouble. At 10:03 PM, they walked in and all hell broke loose. He’s angry, he’s screaming and he’s talking about punishment. They are now going to lie. “Look at my watch, it’s only 9:55 PM, dad.” Dad doesn’t believe that for a second. He’s made them scared and probably have feelings of guilt. The whole conversation now is all about power. It’s about respect. They feel this is dad’s house, not our house. It’s dad’s family, not our family.
It could also be about integrity that he’s looking to set those rules so that people know that we value if we set time together. The curfew was the principle, that you let somebody know if you’re going to be late and maybe it’s about integrity and then its value-connected.
I liked the word principle more than the rule. My kids have never come in late. I’ve never had a curfew with them, but I’ve had plenty of conversations that I have said, “You’re going to this high school party. What time are you coming home?” “Everybody else is coming home at midnight.” I say, “That sounds a little late to me because I love you guys so much and I’m going to worry so much about you coming home safely that I’m not going to fall asleep until I know you guys are home safely. By the way, I’ve got to get up early to take your son to a 7:00 AM basketball game. I can’t sleep in either. Any chance that you guys could get home at 11:00 PM instead?” They say, “Okay.” If they come home at 10:55 PM or 11:05 PM it’s not, “You’ve disrespected me. It’s five minutes. You have no integrity.” It’s coming from a place of caring. It’s talking about what we value. I’ve got friends who are in marriages that are filled with rules. You’re not allowed to do this on Sunday or you’re not allowed to go here or you can text that person anymore from your past.
The rules are always coming from a good place of intention. If it’s a rule, “I am putting my foot down and you are not allowed to,” it changes the relationship. It’s not a conversation and it doesn’t come values-based. If someone together says, “I am feeling anxious and concerned about you texting this person from your past and we know that half of marriages break up or have infidelity. I’m really worried about you texting.” I would be way more likely to say, “I never saw it that way. I didn’t realize you even worried about it. Of course, it means nothing. We’re just friends. I didn’t know that you have these feelings. Of course, I value our feelings way more. It’s not that important. I respect where you’re coming from. I’m not going to text her anymore.” All of a sudden it’s, “I want to follow the principle. I agree with the values and I feel I’ve been heard a little bit. This is still our relationship, not your relationship or our agreement.” It is subtle, is it a principle or is it a rule? It is subtle.
I’m bringing it up because I’m also very word-oriented. I also agree with you. I just wanted to play the various different sides and think about the different sides, because I actually have a framework that I created. If you took a triangle, one side is the expectation and the other side that make up the peak is intent. Trust goes right down the middle. When all is balanced, expectation and intent are aligned, then we’re in trust. I found this out in the weirdest way, in a working relationship. When trust goes down, unfortunately, it makes no sense whatsoever, but expectations go up. That’s why rules go up. That’s why people create more rules and more boundaries because it’s almost like a fear factor. Let’s make it even harder for this person or anybody else to meet it, it’s all because of this fear because the trust has lowered.
I had a relationship with somebody on the executive team where I realized that my trust had gone down. Weirdly enough, I had all these additional expectations with him and other managing partner that I was working with on the management team, we trusted each other implicitly and we had no expectations of one another. Mistakes could happen. Roll it under the carpet, who cares? We’ll work it out. I believe that they are trust-based. When you say no rules, I think it’s because when you come from a place of trust, you’re creating trust. You don’t need to have those rules so set in stone. It’s communication and it’s based on values and principles. I was just playing the different sides of things because I think there’s a lot of people who may see them as different ways, but that’s something that I found about rules and trust that actually surprised me.
I liked that model that you described that jotted that triangle down in front of me. I could see that I’m now thinking about experiences in my work life where to me it’s almost that downward spiral where someone doesn’t meet expectations and then that trust goes down. I’m almost more aware of, “Are they going to meet this other expectation? Look at that, they didn’t meet that one either.” The trust goes down again. All of a sudden, it’s the confirming bias. I’m noticing and I’m hyper-aware of the ways they’re not meeting my expectation.
The younger generation doesn’t care about privacy as much as before. Click To Tweet Probably you weren’t even aware that you had half of those expectations. It is an interesting thing that I discovered and it gives us the ability as leaders, individuals and all of our relationships to really reevaluate our trust. If we see that we’re putting a lot of rules on things, then we can reevaluate where our trust is and work on the trust. I could talk to you forever. What’s one last thing that you’d really like to leave the audience of Take Back Time? What do you like to leave them with?
I think that Great Leaders Have No Rules is about really challenging conventional wisdom. I’ll just do two quick takeaways. On the productivity side, I say think about protecting your deep work focused time. Maybe you don’t close your door all day long, but at least close it for a couple of hours. On the rules side of things, just as we’ve been doing in this fun conversation, think about leading yourself. Think about your marriage, your kids and of course at work. Are there rules you have that are just too stringent? That hasn’t been challenged and have a conversation. If you’ve got a curfew and like it, great, but have a conversation with your kids about it. “What do you think about the curfew? Why do you think I have a curfew? What would you do differently about the curfew?” You’ll strengthen the compliance and the relationship by talking it through.
Those are great takeaways. I’d like to add one more, something you said earlier that I didn’t highlight, but I did a circle on my notes here. You said that in all the interviews that you did, John Maxwell specifically takes a week at the end of the year to reflect. If you went through all your interviews, is it fair to say that reflection time and really assessing what works and doesn’t work was something that successful, productive people spend their time on or investment their time in? Is that the truth?
In fact, many of them literally scheduled that time on their calendar. It was like one hour for reflection at the end of the day or reflection and gratitude. They all had their own spin on it. It was so important. They were literally scheduling into their day or at the end of their week.
I wanted to leave people with that as a takeaway as well because that’s something that I think most people do not invest the time in.
Thank you so much. I really appreciated the chance to come on. It’s been so much fun talking to you.
I’ve really enjoyed it. I know that our audience has taken away a lot of golden nuggets. Where is the best place for them to reach you and how can they get a hold of your new book?
Great Leaders Have No Rules is available in all bookstores and online and Amazon.com. The best way to get ahold of me is my company called LEADx, Kevin@LEADx.orgI would love to hear from your audience. I always read and reply to anybody that the reaches out.
Kevin, thank you so much for being here. Thank you all for being here and make sure that you’ve taken a couple of notes down and that you’re going to reflect on them when you block that into your calendar.

Important Links:

• LEADx
• Great Leaders Have No Rules: Contrarian Leadership Principles to Transform your Team and Your Business
• 15 Secrets Successful People Know About Time Management
• Salary.com
• PayScale.com
• Kevin@LEADx.org
• Amazon.com
• http://www.LeadX.org

About Kevin Kruse

Kevin Kruse is the Founder and CEO of LEADx, offering the world’s first leadership trainer and coach powered by IBM Watson. Kevin is also a New York Times bestselling author of nine books including Great Leaders Have No Rules: Contrarian Leadership Principles to Transform Your Team and Business (launching April 2019).