Improve Your Relationship With Money With Morgana Rae

Penny ZenkerTake Back Time Podcast

TBT 166 | Relationship With Money


People need to understand their relationship with money. Money is their scapegoat when something bad happens. When you can’t afford your dream car, you blame money because it’s getting in the way of your dreams. This money can be your monster, and it can destroy you if you’re not careful. Learn how to have a stable relationship with money with your host, Penny Zenker, and her guest Morgana Rae. Morgana is a wealth and life coach and she is here to talk about the 6 steps to slay that money monster. Listen in the conversation if you want to be able to control and stabilize your relationship with money.

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Improve Your Relationship With Money With Morgana Rae

6 Steps To Slay Your Money Monster

We’re going to talk about money. Money is important. We’re going to find out what your relationship with your money is. We’re talking to Morgana Rae. She is an international number one best-selling author of Financial Alchemy: Twelve Months of Magic and Manifestation, a seven-figure mentor coach, and she’s regarded as one of the world’s number one authority on relationship with money. Her groundbreaking approach to is a love-centered wealth building approach. She’s featured it on her access to Wall Street Journal, Yahoo Finance, and other major television networks around the world. Without further ado, I want to introduce our financial guru to you.

Morgana, welcome to the show.

I’m so happy to be here. We’re going to talk about money and love. We’re going to make it fun and most importantly, safe. The reason I say safe is because human beings have a complicated relationship with money. We know we want it. We want to spend it. We see all the great things we can do with it. We also see and have experienced money as the limiter and the number one excuse human beings give for what we can’t have do or be. Money becomes like the monster of limitation. We know it on a deep level no matter how well we’re doing. We want to have a better relationship with money, what I would describe as a less dramatic, but happy, secure, and expansive relationship with money.

TBT 166 | Relationship With Money

Relationship With Money: Human beings have a complicated relationship with money. They know they want it. They see all the great things they can do with it. But they also see and experience money as the limiter.


It’s like a deep fulfilling relationship. What is fun about this whole relationship idea is, I talk about that as well, I say in my talks, some of our most important relationships are our time, our money, and our health. We never spend any time thinking about these relationships and how we’re showing up in them and what they mean to us.

Except when something goes wrong.

We usually blame the relationship. We blame ourselves or we blame someone else.

We blame time all the time. We think about health when it’s not there. Our body becomes the enemy, but we resent money all the time. Every time we say or we’re told we can’t afford it, money became the bad guy that got in between us and our dreams. As we get older, especially women, we want so much to be liked and nice that when somebody is selling us something, we’re like, “I’d love to, but I can’t afford it.” It’s the easiest scapegoat in the world, which is so unfair.

Change happens at the rate of safety. Click To Tweet

It’s the big, ugly head of scarcity.

It’s telling the person we’re talking to that money is a limiter and unconsciously, we keep telling ourselves we can’t afford it. That money is the barrier and that’s giving all our power away to this invisible entity, money. It becomes a real relationship. It’s imaginary, but on a psychological and emotional level, it’s totally real.

How do we get caught up in this relationship with money? How do we, one, identify what is our relationship now? Two, how do we change it if we don’t like what we see or that’s not the relationship we want to have?

I’m so glad you asked that because most people jump straight to like, “How do I make money fall in love with me? How do I have a great relationship?” You cannot get there without getting honest about where you are. There are so many incredibly well-intentioned Law of Attraction and positive thinking coaches out there. If you go into like Lalaland, do your affirmations, and pretend what is true isn’t true, you create a bigger disconnect with yourself and it doesn’t solve the problem. It’s like if you get a snake bite and put a Band-Aid on it, the poison is going to go inward.

You need to suck it out. You have to do that by getting super honest about everything that’s wrong first. It creates this tension and this leverage like a slingshot get the farther we go into what is in the way. We make it as big and dramatic as we can. It creates the momentum, motivation, leverage, and neurology for creating a change that is big and last, but you can’t get there by sitting around thinking about, “What are my negative beliefs?” That’s not engaged. That’s like a fun, interesting, and intellectual exercise that doesn’t move the dial.

We have to be fully emotionally engaged and see the dramatic impact so that we can stop tolerating it and let it go. I’m all about that because I want to mention that I’ve been talking a lot about letting go. If we talk about setting priorities, we have to be able to let go of what’s not a priority. I believe that’s one of the keys to resilience. Letting go of what’s holding us back, limiting beliefs and things like that are, I’m sure, essential in this process as well.

It tends to be harder for women because our brains are so integrated that we multitask and we have lots of priorities at once. It tends to be harder for us to set single priorities than men. There are exceptions because we’re all human, but in general, women tend to have a little more trouble letting go and determining what is less of a priority. What we never talk about is there’s grief even when you’re letting go of something you don’t want. It has been your companion for a long time. It can be scary letting go before something new is there. I’ve got a solution to that, too.

TBT 166 | Relationship With Money

Relationship With Money: Women tend to have a little more trouble letting go and determining what is less of a priority. There is grief in letting go of something you don’t want.


We’ve got a lot to talk about. Let’s start with how we identify where we are.

The biggest secret, and this is like make or break because it’s not anything you would expect, it’s counter-intuitive, is the root cause of your money block is never about money. I know people like to say, “Change your money story, change your life,” but it’s not money because money is made up. It’s like this shared imaginary agreement that this person is worth $5 and this is worth $5,000 when they’re bad. It’s something we make up, but it’s what money represents. That’s where things get sticky and real from a human motivation perspective. Money represents love.

Step 1

Our parents were our first experience of money. They told us how much we were loved and worth, and how safe we are. It’s money worth and safety. In the United States, our right to exist depends on if you can pay a hospital bill. It gets scary and dramatic. What you want to do is you want to start. You can start with the negative experiences with money and all that kind of stuff and then veer off into the stuff that doesn’t look like it has to do with money. The heartbreaks, accident, something maybe that you’re ashamed of, the disappointments, the negative messages you got about yourself, anything that ever made you feel not good enough, loved, worthy, and safe.

Eating disorders is a great place to look. As I’m speaking to you now, whatever pops up that may, from your grownup eyes, not even look like it’s a big deal but there’s some juice there, that’s where you want to go. The root cause is that experience that created these beliefs about you not being, lovable, worthy, capable enough, and not safe. Anything in the world that has made you feel unsafe is gold in here. I call this process the financial alchemy because alchemy is transmitting lead into gold. We’re taking those lead in human experience that you’ve already had. You’ve already paid the price of admission. You don’t have to do it again, but we want to milk it and make it work for us and create that slingshot that will catapult you over to where you want to be. You want to make it big enough that it’s like, “Uh.”

The root cause of our money problems has nothing to do with money. Click To Tweet

What I’m hearing you say is I want to make a list or get into those top moments where you felt like you weren’t good enough and weren’t loved. How do we do that, recognize them? Do you want them to take it to a Level 5 or 11?

I want you to take it to a critical mass. I don’t want you to go so far that you are retraumatizing yourself and dissociating. Dissociating is bad. Dial it back.

That’s what I want to be clear so that people get themselves in a position that they can’t get out of.

That’s the trick. It can be different ways. It can be in your head or writing it out. I find that if there is a safe, nonjudgmental person who can be your witness and in the time of on again, off again pandemic shutdowns and being safe, you can do it over the phone. To have the presence of a witness that you can verbalize and talk yourself into it with who is not going to interrupt, minimize, and try to coach you, please know, and lets you get there. I find that is a safety line that helps you go deeper and know that you can come back, but it has to be somebody who’s not going to interfere and judge.

I’ve had the experience and I’ve used this method where I’d closed my eyes and imagine that I’m talking to someone that I feel safe with and sharing something that’s sensitive and difficult.

Do you still want to go into that horrible eek like, “This is awful?” What you want to do is you want to dump everything into your root cause that you don’t want in your life experience. Make it personal, but you can pile in things like bigger things like sexism, racism, human trafficking, whatever gets you pissed off. It’s the emotional state and the full engagement. That’s only step one. We have 6 steps, but step 1 and 2 are usually where I spend the most time to get there enough. It’s like you’re a lawyer in the court of the universe making a case for why the universe is awful. When you get enough to believe it, we’re creating polarity. There’s no magic and neutrality. It’s like being stuck in mud.

Step 2

Step number two is where things get weird, which is now we are going to personify the root cause. Meaning we are going to imagine, invent that there is this imaginary monstrous person who is not you and not your parents. I’ll explain that when we get to step three, who was responsible for every horrible thing that has ever happened to you that you’ve ever felt bad about. In fact, the worst things that you say to yourself, “I love using this.”

Imagine the worst thing you’ve ever said to yourself. Now imagine that it’s this other being whispering in your ear in your own voice to trick you into not hating yourself for feeling bad about yourself. We want it to feel real. It’s important that we make it a person. It doesn’t have to be anyone you’ve ever known, or it could be some historical grant person that you’ve never met, but it needs to feel real, personal, and directed at you. The reason for that is because until then, everything is an abstract concept. Abstract concepts are floaty.

Do we want to give it a name?

You can. I call it the Money Monster. If it has a name, great. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter. Some of us are like easy, visual, and then some of us are not. When I accidentally went through this process in 2003, my monster showed up in my mind’s eye when my coach on some weird day said, “Morgana, if your money was a person, who would your money be?” I happened to be in such a dark place at that moment that I saw my money instantly was this big scary, violent biker dude with long sideburns, the tattoos and terrifying. I knew he was bad. All of a sudden, all of my financial challenges made perfect sense because no matter how I was applying myself consciously, subconsciously I was protecting myself.

The biker dude was showing up and he was bad to the bone, right?

TBT 166 | Relationship With Money

Relationship With Money: The natural end result of this monster that you created is to crush you to the point that there’s no point in living. You have to fight back and annihilate it. There can only be one.


Yes. It’s real to us. We have experiences with human beings. We know to end relationships. Step number three, I could ask you, “Does this person feel hot or cold? How big is it? What does it smell like? What do his eyes look like?” We flush it out. Ultimately, it’s dangerous. All bad, no good, whatsoever, which is why it’s not your parents. If you had monstrous parents, it used your parents to hurt you. When we get to step number three, we get rid of the monster. My mom was into the show called Highlander back in the ‘80s. It’s supernatural, thought-ish guy. I didn’t watch it, but I remember there was this slogan, “There can only be one.”

Step 3

In this moment, it’s you or the monster. The natural end result of this monster’s impact in your life is to crush you to the point that there’s no point in living. You want to say, “No, you don’t get to be here.” Step number three is you annihilate it by any means necessary. I encourage you to get super dramatic and pullout weapons and be a monster slayer in this moment. We are using victimhood in step number one. It’s sacred, valuable, or it wouldn’t happen, but it tends to have this very heavy, cold, damp feeling. This warrior energy is more rising hot, fiery energy. We want to purge this thing from existence. It’s binary. It is or it isn’t.

I can see it in my mind’s eye. The tongue is hanging out as I’m stabbing, hitting it around this way, that way. I’m playing this in my head, so I’m liking it.

When it’s dead, get rid of the bloody bits. We don’t want any zombie monsters coming back.

I’m going to put it in the incinerator. I’ll burn up every single ash.

Sometimes I say sulfuric acid is useful and a cosmic vacuum cleaner, too. I love the incinerator. When it’s all gone, you feel it because it’s been with you your whole life and maybe back generations. What I look for at the end of step three is, does it feel different? Is there an emptiness there? The emptiness may feel great, light, and easy. It also may feel like there’s some grieving or even some fear of like, “What’s next?” By the way, those are also perfect great signs. You are acing it.

Step number four, now, we get into the fun part. There is a fun part, I promise. When the monster is gone and with the monster you put in everything that you reject and do not want to make space for in your life that doesn’t get to exist in your life experience, all that’s left is love. This is going to be a person, too, who loves you more than anybody in the world. I find from experience because I’ve coached thousands of people now that a romantic dynamic works best.

Step 4

If you have such trauma in your background that isn’t safe for you yet, fine. This can work for you, too. If it is a romantic partner feeling and sometimes it looks like your type and sometimes it doesn’t, but he’s hot and you like him or her. One of the rules is because this new partner loves you so much, this partner will always respect your boundaries. It’s never going to be predatory. You set the pace of the relationship. What this does is not only change your blueprint for relationship with money, but it will also change your blueprint for relationship with everybody else on Earth, especially romantic relationships. Four is you meet your money honey. What I like about this is usually the money honey shows up and he or she is their own person. It feels like they’ve been there forever but you never noticed them before. You were getting jiggy with the money monster and the bed’s not big enough for all three.

You can't have a good relationship with money without getting honest about where you are. Click To Tweet

It sounds a little bit like Dorothy came up for me. She’s clicking her heels and she had it all this time. It was there with her. She just had to discover it. There you all had it. You’re having your Wizard of Oz moment.

Step 5

That was my experience. My first money honey, he was like this young romantic guy with very clean cut and a tuxedo, carrying a bouquet of red flowers in love with me and wanting to woo me, which is the weirdest thing that I’ve ever experienced. I never thought of money loving me or being personal or worthy of love or trust. I could feel how I’d been breaking his heart for years. Part of the thing is now you have all this power in the relationship. You go to step five, which is now you have a conversation because this money has this personhood, so he or she has a voice.

I asked my money honey, “What you need from me, so you can stay with me?” I still have that conversation with the underlying presupposition that this person desperately wants to be with you, but you are the doorkeeper and he will push it away when you go into fear. You have that conversation. You can also ask like, “Should I go into this business? Should I work with this partner? Should I hire this coach? What do I need to learn to let go of this negative pattern, any of that?”

Step 6

You get an answer back very often, so quick and quiet that you can pretend you didn’t hear it or do automatic writing. However, you best get your information, go with that. That step number five is to have that conversation with your money honey. Step number six is to take concrete measurable action. If your money honey says something like, “I want you to love yourself,” that’s great. I don’t know anybody who can do that 24/7 for the rest of their lives and get 100%. When we have a concrete measurable action, that’s something we can check off, yes, we did or we didn’t do. It makes it more real. It takes it out of the ethers and it puts us in our body.

If you want real world results, you need to take some physical action even if it doesn’t look like it has anything to do with money. If you have a conversation with your money honey and it’s clear, he lit up like a Christmas tree, “Yes, let’s go dancing,” and you say, “Yes,” then do it. That’s when interesting things happened. Katie Curtin went skating, came home, and got a phone call giving her $10,000 without even asking. It’s weird stuff like that is what makes coaching so much fun. That’s the sixth step.

As a Master NLP Practitioner, I want to reinforce to the readers that all of this works. As crazy as it may sound, this gets right to the unconscious mind or subconscious, different people say different things, but it gets underneath the hood and it rewires everything. I want to reinforce that this is powerful imagery. When we use metaphors, personas, and the way that you’ve developed this process, people can find amazing massive results from this.

Thank you. I got my Master’s in NLP also way back in 2005, which was like, “I was already doing this, but why it worked suddenly made sense?” It was validating and there’s that common NLP notion that if your conscious mind is going this way and your subconscious mind is going that way, the subconscious always wins. My teacher said, “Who determines where the ship goes, the captain or the crew?” It’s the crew below the deck that makes the decisions. We need your conscious mind and your unconscious mind on the same team and if money or love or health is inexplicably dangerous.

I also want to put in their time since we are talking about take back time. Shift in relationship with money is I want to talk about afterwards how that also can shift your relationship with time.

It does in the coolest way possible. If you’re protecting yourself from anything unconsciously, and again, it’s never going to be what you think it is. It isn’t that you’re consciously protecting yourself from money. It’s that protecting yourself from all these pains of feeling unworthy, lovable, unsafe, and all that stuff is going to show up in your relationship with money, time, love, and health and fill wherever the problem spot is in your life. You won’t even know it until you dig underneath and make it safe. One of my favorite things to say is that change happens at the speed of safety. By the way, tying into the theme of time, that means you can spend decades doing everything right, working yourself to bits, and not getting results because the need to protect, the prime directive to protect always wins. The moment something becomes safe, things shift fast.

In 2012, my money honey and I made a deal because I was still single. I am 45 and I wanted to travel the world with the love of my life. I’ve been looking for that person since I was 4.5. I’m a real slow learner. He told me that I could not do that if I was printing books, standing in the post office mailing products, and coaching too many people all at the same time. We came up with my Morgana’s make-out with a cute guy business plan, which meant digitalizing everything, taking fewer clients, and my income quadrupled that year. It doubled by April and I met my husband in August.

I also slayed my love monster two months before that, but ever since then, I work less time, make more money, and have a bigger impact, because then, remember I kept telling the universe, I want to travel the world with the love of my life. I got married for the first time at 47. It was a simple elopement. I was in Bali finishing my retreat. My husband was in South Africa, taking photos of animals. He proposed over Skype. I cut my trip short, came home, and picked him up. We eloped and I was like, “Bucket list complete,” and that’s that.

Two weeks later, he had an assignment in Port Arthur and he called the tourism bureau and said, “I got married. Can I bring my wife?” They said, “Sure, make it a honeymoon.” When we were in Port Arthur at Mexico, we were walking by their iconic cathedral, Our Lady of Guadalupe. He said, “Do you want to get married again?” I was like, “Yes.” We’re filthy, sweaty, and totally not glamorous, two Jews and Jesus walk into a Mexican cathedral. It’s like a joke, take off our rings, make up new vows. It hit me so much deeper the second time because I had been a married woman for thirteen days. I had a frame of reference for what being married meant.

When he saw that it affected me so deeply, he came up with the idea the next day, “Let’s get married 100 times in 100 countries.” We’ve been married 25 times in 20 countries since 2014. I still think it’s less expensive than one giant wedding in Los Angeles. It’s romantic and fun. I encourage everybody to do it, too, because some of our weddings are ridiculous all day medieval affairs. My husband was knighted in the Republic of San Marino, but it’s not about that. It’s about, “Let’s stop life, focus on each other, and remember why we choose each other and what we want for the other.”

It’s beautiful because you keep choosing each other. It’s almost like, why do you get married once? Now that you say that, it almost seems illogical to only get married once. Why wouldn’t you renew your vows every year to choose each other all over again, year after year?

TBT 166 | Relationship With Money

Relationship With Money: The money honey will show up and he or she is their own person. It will feel like they’ve been there forever. You never noticed them before because of the money monster.


In our case, every time we go to a new country. I thought a big fancy wedding was too much pressure for a little baby marriage for me. It also now means that since this is our lifestyle, and this is my priority, my business has to allow me to get on a plane and go to other countries for weeks or months at a time because that’s important to me. Do you want to talk about time? This is what I worked out with my money honey and my human honey. I get more focused on exactly what I want to do and with whom and how can give the most value and also be in full integrity with the life that I want to create for myself, too.

One of the big things that I was thinking about when I was preparing to talk to you and reinforced as we’re talking is that this relationship with money and how it affects our time is how we value our time. You value your time differently now because you have other things that you make more important and realize that more work is not going to equal more money. Getting married 100 times in 100 countries is going to bring you a lot more happiness, fulfillment, and fun. Therefore, that raises the value of your time. Not to just give it away on too many smaller activities. You’re focused on the bigger options.

I believe that the only purpose for money to exist is to serve love, lifestyle, and legacy. If making money is killing your relationships, that’s not a good relationship with money no matter how many billions you have. I’ve coached billionaires with this problem. If making money is hurting your health and consuming all of your time, then it’s not a healthy relationship with money. If making money is making you do things that hurt people or the planet, that’s not a good relationship with money. The more it serves love, lifestyle, and legacy, the more it makes my money honey happy.

I also found that the happiness of love blended a certain mojo where my client results got bigger and more millionaires were happening faster. It all feeds each other. They say time is money. You pick the name of the monster that works for you in the moment, but know that it’s holographic. It’s everything at the same time. I call this cute guy money because money was the area of life that needed my love and healing, but it could easily be time.

What it brings up the image for me is it’s that three-headed dog, Cerberus. It’s all of them together. Thank you so much for sharing this process. People hopefully were going through it in their mind, but they’re going to, after this, step back and go through it in more detail. Did we miss anything? Is there anything that you wanted to share with the audience before we close down this episode?

Be kind and gentle with yourself. We raced through this and I’m trying to cram twenty something years of experience into less than an hour. I don’t expect you to master it in the first sitting. Read this blogpost again, go to my website, I have way more resources, hundreds of articles and videos on my website, too, for free in the blog to help you and answer questions. I have a video series to help guide you through. That will answer, maybe hit some of the things that didn’t come to me at this moment. Understand that I’m not expecting everybody to get it right away. Go through it deeper. Go to my website. There are more resources for you there.

Anything in the world that has made you feel unsafe is gold. Click To Tweet

Thank you so much and thanks for sharing your website. I love what you shared and I’m excited to go through the process more deeply for myself. What’s important and what I want to close out with, for those who are reading is that, it doesn’t matter where you are on that spectrum. I say this also when people are talking about, “I’m already good at time management and I already have a good relationship with money.” There are multiple levels of black belt. If you think about karate, the masters are still working on new levels of mastery.

I want to make sure that everybody takes that into consideration who’s reading, is wherever you are, there are deeper levels of fulfillment and happiness. I love what you said about money’s main purpose is for love, lifestyle, and legacy, which one can you tune up and maybe you can leave a bigger legacy than what you’ve left or have done to this point, or enjoy your lifestyle that much more, or have that much deeper love. There’s room for growth for everybody. Make sure that you guys are putting this into practice. Thank you, Morgana. Thank you all. We’ll see you in the next episode.

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About Morgana Rae

TBT 166 | Relationship With MoneyMorgana Rae is the international #1 best-selling author of “Financial Alchemy®: Twelve Months of Magic and Manifestation.” A 7-figure mentor coach, Morgana is regarded to be the world’s #1 authority on relationship with money. Her groundbreaking approach to love-centered wealth building has featured her on The Wall Street Journal, Yahoo Finance, all the major television networks, Coast to Coast Radio and hundreds more.

Morgana’s fans call her the “Money Goddess” because of the many documented stories of clients manifesting unexpected income of 4, 5, 6, and even 7 figures within hours of changing their relationship with money. A pioneer in personal development for 27 years, Morgana writes, speaks, and coaches from a desire to empower idealistic entrepreneurs, artists, healers, and humanitarians to have a big impact in the world… and to heal the rift between heart, spirit, and money.

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